Words fail me. The first question in my mind, of course, was why aren't anglo-saxons suffering this anglo-inflicted malaise. The answer — naturally — oozes arrogance - it's the genetic sensitivity to evil that all French share, of course! Since I'm only 1/4 French, I guess it's been bred out of me.

Doug:

What's this? BRED out of you! Non, non, non. Your French blood surely sees itself as superior to or at least equal to the other 3/4s in your veins. But it's probably NOT your French blood that sends in the antibodies when you're sick...

;)

The first question in my mind, of course, was why aren't anglo-saxons suffering this anglo-inflicted malaise.

Because Anglo-saxons rule the world and thus have
not to think theier way to be.
Would u sleep well if u had to work in a kolkhoz tomorrow?
NO

Tommorrow french will wake up in a an anglosaxon Kafkaian capitalist world where market rules have
ascendance on the pursuit of happiness.
-Europe was a bearable place until England introduced Industrialisation and colonisation.-
This night i'll sleep if i manage to dream of some paradisiacal forgotten islands instead of some brave new world.

However Valerie won't feel this way since she's happy with soma .

Here is a user friendly illustration of the situation:
American scientists are running a gigantic mental manipulation experience over the world ,one says:
-damn we don't get the results we expected ,
they resist and suffer some die :this is catastrophic ,shall we continue?
The other:
-Yes ,too bad for them ,they will suffer but we must stay safe.

Avenger

You think your job is keeping you awake?
What do you really know of pre-industrial Europe?
Certainly you don't know how livable Europe was during the 15-1800's.
In fact I read somewhere that Haiti and it's sugar plantations (operated by slave labor) provided 2/3rds of the French governments expences. Your mister sun king built the Palace of Versallies on the sweat and blood of brown people.
It isn't as though times have changed. When we look around the globe, you can point and imagine some countries are "colonies" of America; South Korea, Japan, Canada, but it is horse crap. America doesn't have colonies.
France on the other hand has Ivorie Coast, Guyana, Gongo; these are active concernes, meant and manipulated to fatten the French purse.

Try warm milk, and quit blaiming Anglo Saxons -

[strange sidenote] Anglo Saxons were German invaders who took over the Roman lands in Britain. They were defeated by the Normans in 1066. The French effectively colonized England so if Anglo Saxon traditions are keeping Frenchmen awake nights , they have only themselves to blaim.

Your French blood surely sees itself as superior to or at least equal to the other 3/4s in your veins.

In many 1/4 French people this might be true. In my case however, I'm afraid it has to content itself with sneering at the English 1/4 and condescending to the Polish 1/4. You see, the fourth 1/4 is German.

Would u sleep well if u had to work in a kolkhoz tomorrow?
NO

I think that's probably very true. Capitalist swine like myself don't aspire to be government lackeys. That's for failures.

This night i'll sleep if i manage to dream of some paradisiacal forgotten islands instead of some brave new world.

But shouldn't it be Africans kept awake at night then? And did someone say Soma? The government assures that you will have all you can eat. You have a right to as many chemicals as it takes to make you think you're happy in France.

If you want to extend that analogy, I'd say that of the two societies it's France in which a phrase like "everyone belongs to everyone else" seems most at home. And it would appear that it is France which might need to start decanting babies soon. It already has a nearly Bokonovskified press, although the US is not as far behind in this area as I'd prefer. COMMUNITY, ITENTITY, STABILITY indeed.

In fact I read somewhere that Haiti and it's sugar plantations (operated by slave labor) provided 2/3rds of the French governments expences.

I'm not sure if it was that high, but it was certainly significant. Sugar was the reason that France chose to give up its all of its North American colonies rather than it's Carribean colonies (though with hind sight being 20/20, that maybe wasn't a great move). Is it so different today, though? Hasn't sugar simply been replaced by half the businesses in Africa?

I had a very interesting answer but i can't post it here.
Sorry if i offended you Valerie ,i just thought it was a free board like PaveFrance.

'avenger'

INTELLIGENT commentary is welcome. Back up what you say with research. If you don't, you will be considered a troll.

Avenger, if I didn't have spamophobia, I'd post my e-mail address and ask you to send it to me. As it is, I'm down to 0-2 spam a day (down from 30-80), and striving to keep it that way.

Avenger, if I didn't have spamophobia, I'd post my e-mail address and ask you to send it to me.

Spam is really annoying i get a bunch of it too.
I just wanted to post here ,but i know my ideas offend peoples though i don't want it.
Here is basicly what i think (SO this is an OPINION , you're free to think otherwise don't ban me thanks):

I think men have currently too much influence on each other:
devil propagates quicker than goodness , big systems like capitalism and communism suffer from this and make peoples suffer.
I think those peoples should have the choice to live in closed communities/villages or alone to
let them get what they seed.

I view gouvernmments like a mob playing with the life of theier citizens and keeping the goodies.

I like the ideas of Rousseau and Schopenhauer:
humanity and septicism.

Well, Avenger your comment live in closed communities alone certainly fits Rousseau’s individualism of the first Discourse, and it’s rejection of civilization. I’ve never possessed un coeur sensible enough to really view Rousseau with much vigor. However, I have read much about his influence in getting the French public to support French aid to the American Revolution, and Jefferson using many ‘ideas’ of Rousseau in drafting the Declaration of Independence.

I just recently read Francois Noel Babeuf’s ”Graccus” and the Conspiracy of the Equals. I mention because Babeuf was a big fan of Rousseau’s second Discourse, as, I would imagine you are, no? My guess is you are also a fan of Babeuf?

To counter out your thinking, may I suggest you read, if you have not already, Reflections on the Revolution in France by Edmund Burke, 1790.

I mention because Babeuf was a big fan of Rousseau?s second Discourse, as, I would imagine you are, no? My guess is you are also a fan of Babeuf?

Yep i would add i'm a big fan of BOTH discourses.
Civilization corrupts manhood.
I find Babeufs interesting particularly on the part concerning abolizing property rights.
But communism isn't either my cup of tea :
it forces labor just like capitalism.

I think an ideal government would be a governement where every born is given right to a property (static or dynmamic)
and where everyone has the choice to enter or quit any type of association.

Reflections on the Revolution in France by Edmund Burke

I'll take a look at it thx .

where everyone has the choice to enter or quit any type of association.

Sorry, I do not follow what you mean here. Please explain what you mean by association.

Sorry, I do not follow what you mean here. Please explain what you mean by association

I mean association like a contract bounding two or more individuals (a business/project).
This can be for instance helping someone building a house in exchange of one harvest or for free if it's a friend.
This could be ponctual or durable cooperations, without the need to put a contract on paper : cooperation and breaking of agreement would be natural.

Avenger, that’s an interesting philosophy to have. It would work on a small scale, but looses effectiveness on a larger scale. But, it seems you are against a large scale economy anyway.

Also, where would you friend get the materials to build the house?

Thanx.
Yes ,i'm against a large scale economy ( although possible )the idea is exactly to exchange effectiveness to more freedom.
The economy should basicelly consists of hotels /restaurants /farms like in the past.

Also, where would you friend get the materials to build the house?
Well the community should have tools they guard from previous generations ,they could barter one or build one when a new is needed. So would
knowledge be kept.Then materials should be found on your property (sand form ciment ,wood ,rocks)
or on the public properties.

I imagine the society like a mixing of modern and
mediaval life style.

*Why do i have the feeling the thread has been hijacked ?*
lol

We have only been able to “hijack” this thread because Val is so nice to let us run wild here by ourselves.

Now you are sounding like the Utopian Socialist Robert Owen and his little “Villages of Cooperation”. They were self-contained agricultural communities much like what you are describing. Except that they never worked. He tried to run some in Ireland(?) I think that failed, and some here in the US in Indiana that also failed in the early/mid 1800s. Perhaps, Avenger, you are living in the wrong century?

Now you are sounding like the Utopian Socialist Robert Owen and his little ?Villages of Cooperation?.
God bless him.That's not what i'm describing but that's close ,same causes but different solution.
He basically runned some kolkhoz.
My view is give everyone a property and all will go natural (not a shared property).In my scheme you work your own property with your family and eventually you associate with neighbors.
What made Owen's experience fails was discensions
, in my scheme the man geting frustrated could run his own field or try to get a job in a shop or restaurant.
In fact my idea is simple bring back medieval landscape :
kick the kings out ,give everybody a property.

Anyway i think owen experience could haved worked
,he just had practical problems :
unkwon peoples ,different interests,money imperatives...

New Harmony collapsed when one of Owen's American business partners ran off with all profits
I mean you can't blame this one on Owen

Perhaps, Avenger, you are living in the wrong century?
I'll take it as a compliment.
If i could live in Greece during antiquitie this would to my delight.

Have you watched this movie:
mosquito coast? with harrison ford?
That's give a good shot of what make an utopia fail.Moving movie (it's also a book).