Belgian TV showed the comments of Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy and I was very surprized and impressed at the clear language he used about a young population not willing to work for their future and not integrating into the local society. Perhaps I was equally surprized that Belgian media broadcast his statement, which might be considered inflamatory in many circles.

How has the French media been covering this story? How about the average French citizen on the street ... are they outraged about the reaction of the immigrant community or do they stay hidden behind the curtain of indifference as so much plagues European society?

«Violence continues and spreads in the French suburbs, at the sound, at times, of "Allahu Akbar".»

Apart for you biased islamophobic/arabophobic remark, if you were less ignorant on these suburbs, you would have known that such events are a pastime recurring since decades in these dormitory cities for an idle youth, all ethnicities included. Inite that by drinking alcohol or smoking weed/hashish, then give you a few adrenalin while 'fighting' the cops and you have filled what may have been a boring night.
All they want is having fun and have you speaking of them, with an alibi made of these two deaths to blame the police as their scapegoat. They succeeded, then you add your biased and somewhat ridiculous comprehension of these facts.

lol.

n.b: i have spent unforgettable years in the "cité des Canibouts" and the "cité des 4000".

Flemish American,

The French media has been covering this story like a general story actually. On TV, they generally start with this story but that's about it.
Apart from that, they have tried to interview people living in these suburbs, mostly opposing violence, burning of cars and so on. The problem is this "opposition" is always followed by the question from the journalist: "but do you understand why they do that?", and the answer: "of course I do, it's understandable. Unemployment, discrimination, no swimming pools [I've heard that], no good apartments".
From what I've seen on TV, they seem to try to stay neutral although, as I said, they interview people who give excuses.

Sensi,

Apart for you biased islamophobic/arabophobic remark,

What biased remark? I have not invented it, nor wrote Jesus akbar. Now I'm islamophobe if I report that youths were yelling allah akbar? You have a serious problem.

if you were less ignorant on these suburbs, you would have known that such events are a pastime

Yeak, I know the chorus: those poor youths are not given any job, any swimming pool, any good apartment, any chance, they have nothing to do during the day, so it's understandable. Now that is an argument.

recurring since decades in these dormitory cities for an idle youth, all ethnicities included.

I've stated before that the problem wasn't with the ethnic minority, but with what these looters were doing. Now, I repeat, some of them screamed "Allah akbar", so live with it.
Oh, and by the way, no it's not "all ethnicities included". My grandparents came from Poland years ago, they didn't have much, and certainly much less than immigrants have today. They didn't complain. They found a job, even if it wasn't what they wanted to do in the first place and they worked to earn their living. They asked nothing of the "state". And they certainly didn't burn cars or scream allah akbar or Sweet Lord Jesus for that matter. Neither did the Portuguese or the Italians or the Spaniards. All those waves of immigration knew and faced xenophobic remarks. It was not easy for them either. Yet they all integrated very well.

Inite that by drinking alcohol or smoking weed/hashish, then give you a few adrenalin while 'fighting' the cops and you have filled what may have been a boring night.

Boring night? Poor little things they are.

All they want is having fun

At the expense of others. Such nice people.

n.b: i have spent unforgettable years in the "cité des Canibouts" and the "cité des 4000".

I have no doubt about that.

They have free education, free housing and money for food and booze. With the basics supplied, there's no excuse not to find or make a job. QB and get a life and a job!

«What biased remark? I have not invented it, nor wrote Jesus akbar. Now I'm islamophobe if I report that youths were yelling allah akbar? You have a serious problem.»

Anchoring with «at the sound, at times, of "Allahu Akbar".» is the well-know rhetoric of the post 9/11 traumatised neo-cons that have became arabophobe/islamophobe, that speak of 'eurabia' or 'frogistan' and that want to see an islamic jihadist in any muslim. I know you, we all know you.

A plain example of this kind of biased reporting of facts is in this last article from the Washington Post:

«Anger Erupts in Paris Suburb After Muslim Deaths»

cf. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/02/AR2005110200492.html

Only one of this boy was muslim, and this is really not the point of the "Anger Erupts", nobody give a fuck of their religion except this lamentable journalist that like to twist events to fit her muslim-hatred's amalgamating propaganda.
But for the middle IQ reader, reading that nauseous journalist work, it seems that: muslims are dead, muslims eager erupt.

«Yeak, I know the chorus: those poor youths are not given any job, any swimming pool, any good apartment, any chance, they have nothing to do during the day, so it's understandable. Now that is an argument.»
«Boring night? Poor little things they are.»

Hmmm, where have you read that? They are only lazy low-life dickheads that have chosen to sell hashish&weed or worse ecstasy, lsd, special k, cocaïne, are simple burglars or prefer to attack violently people for 2 euros rather than to work.
Not really my kind of friends.

«Boring night? Poor little things they are.»
«At the expense of others. Such nice people.»

Once again i have only told you what it is, i give facts, that is not a promoting...

«I have no doubt about that.»

You dare to insinuate that i lie?!

Best regards,
Sensi

Sensi-- Sort of like insinuating that someone is racist, because they report rampaging hooliganism, perpitraited, by "Allah Akbar" screaming, drug dealers.

Hi Carine :)

«Sort of like insinuating that someone is racist, because they report rampaging hooliganism, perpitraited, by "Allah Akbar" screaming»

Reporting 'allah akbar' because maybe a sole if any person have said that, and trying to generalize and to make believe that the rampaging hooliganism is made by some kind of islamic jihadist is simply ridiculous and only fit the arabo/islamophobe speech.
The term racism his more elaborated in french than in english. Racism is not any more reserved to the old theory of biological differences and races superiority; in his large and modern acception it is also to generalize on people according to their ethnic group, religion, nationality or even culture, the term is slowly including xenophobic and social segregation behaviors.
Thus yes, seeing a potential terrorist or jihadist in every muslim and filling all along the day threads with this kind of rhetoric is, in french, racist.

Best regards,
Sensi

OK Sensi,

You've convinced me. French is a nebulous, fatuous language, incapable of exactitudes.

Interventor - language can only express what already exists in the mind.

Sensi,

Anchoring with «at the sound, at times, of "Allahu Akbar".» is the well-know rhetoric of the post 9/11 traumatised neo-cons that have became arabophobe/islamophobe, that speak of 'eurabia' or 'frogistan' and that want to see an islamic jihadist in any muslim. I know you, we all know you.

I see you like the idea of wearing a veil in front of your eyes.
I never said all Muslims were jihadists. But it is a fact that all jihadists are Muslims or claim to be so. Now you may argue that they do not represent the religion of Islam. Maybe. But still I'm waiting for more Muslims to stand up against terrorism. Some have done so, but far from the majority of them. Because they're scared, because their own "brothers" are threatening them, accusing them of not being good Muslims.

Funny, I doubt if I had written something like "Policemen charged at the sound of Jesus will beat up Allah" you would have accused me of being "christianophobe" (yep, the word sounds as ridiculous as the word "islamophobe"). But wait a minute... Christians don't yell such things, and especially not in Muslim countries.

And btw, I heard and saw the "sound of Allahu Akbar" on Franco-German collaboration channel Arte. You can deny it as much as you want. I won't force you to open your eyes, don't worry.

A plain example of this kind of biased reporting of facts is in this last article from the Washington Post

The Washington Post isn't exactly a "neocon" newspaper, you know. But at least, you give a link.

Hmmm, where have you read that? They are only lazy low-life dickheads that have chosen to sell hashish&weed or worse ecstasy, lsd, special k, cocaïne, are simple burglars or prefer to attack violently people for 2 euros rather than to work. Not really my kind of friends.

Flip. Flop.

Once again i have only told you what it is, i give facts, that is not a promoting...

Facts? Which facts? Denying what happened because it may anger the jihadists in our suburbs?

«I have no doubt about that.» You dare to insinuate that i lie?!

Actually, I meant it (that I had no doubt about it)... Nevermind.

Reporting 'allah akbar' because maybe a sole if any person have said that, and trying to generalize and to make believe that the rampaging hooliganism is made by some kind of islamic jihadist is simply ridiculous and only fit the arabo/islamophobe speech.

And those French citizens who went to Iraq to fight against the Allied (no no, I don't mean Saddam here, I mean the Coalition of the Willing), what were they exactly?

If I had not happened upon a one sentence blurb on Instapundit, I wouldn't have heard about these days of riots in Paris at all. He said something like "Whats going on in Paris?", with a link to a CBS story. No mention of who or why at CBS, (There is no American coverage of this growing unrest in France on the TV) so of course I come here for the real info.

If it were not for Carine and her unflinching honesty, I would hardly know there were riots at all, much less that there is an Islamic component to them. I know from past reading at this and other blogs, that Paris is ringed with welfair ghettos for France's Muslims.
I would have no idea that this is the case by reading scant mainstream coverage of the situation in PARIS.

Sensi - you say this is an average ordinary day in a French suburb? Car burnings, School burnings, Police and Firemen attacked?

If that is so, then I think Carine is correct about your blind spot.

SStill this is nothing that I haven't seen before. We have simular after the Super Bowl, or the NCAA Championship game. From the picture it looks like the good folk of the neighborhood are having a "take back the street" march against the violence.

All in all, I think this is a job for Batman , rather then Superman or the Justice League.

Sarkozy recently referred to troublemakers in the suburbs as "scum" or "riffraff" and in the past vowed to "clean out" the suburbs.

To early to call them "freedom fighters"?

I know... just call them "Insurgents".

Thus you removed my reply and you have banned me?
Lol, even if i have been impolite, banning me is your last argument as a free speech hater.

Best regards,
Sensi

I have not invited you here Sensi. Contrary to my "fellow" citizens, I refuse to let others insult me in my house.

This is not a matter of free speech, this is a matter of private property.

Be polite and you won't be deleted and banned. If you don't like it... well, I don't care. At all.

I'm a bit dissappointed this all went personal. Sort of distracts from the real story here.

Papertiger hit on the most disturbing thing about this whole situation. The mainstream worldwide press is treating this like a fill-in story rather than the front-page news it deserves to be.

I have no explanation for this. I would have expected the Conservative Press in the U.S. to have enjoyed reporting on Islamic-style racial problems in France ... sort of like an "in-your-face" slam dunk. Since I live in Belgium, I'm surprized that this is not the case. Then again, maybe papertiger is only watching Liberal News which certainly wouldn't want to show the problems being experienced by their founding fathers.

This is what the French, Germans and Belgians were scared silly about before the invasion of Iraq and was one of the underlying reasons they all opposed the war. They all have a Muslim population that is living on the edge and it only takes a little thing like two boys getting electrocuted to set them off. Imagine what French participation in Iraq would have caused. It's scary.

Sensi, I respect your desire to protect the name of a culture I suspect you are a part of, but you need to wake up and realize there is a real problem going on and it's been there long before George occupied the White House and long before Sarkozy was the Interior Minister in France. 9-11 was planned during one of the most Liberal White Houses in American history. The simple, clear fact is that the Muslim faith has a serious problem in the modern era trying to integrate with the rest of the world.

Paris is filled with Chinese, Poles, Chileans and Canadians (well, I guess so) but the majority of these nationalities work hard, make a contribution to their neighborhoods and try to integrate into the society and I don't mean by changing religions as few of the Chinese are Christians and we all know the Canadians are heathens. Muslims have hard workers too, but they are overshadowed by a larger population that moves to the West and then expects a hand-out.

Change comes from within, Sensi. Start working more with your own people and the perceptions from the outside will take care of themselves.

I would have expected the Conservative Press in the U.S. to have enjoyed reporting on Islamic-style racial problems in France ... sort of like an "in-your-face" slam dunk. Since I live in Belgium, I'm surprized that this is not the case. Then again, maybe papertiger is only watching Liberal News which certainly wouldn't want to show the problems being experienced by their founding fathers.

Much of the mainstream U.S. press suffers from a herd-like mentality. They tend to cover the same stories, ignore the same stories, and give the same weight to stories. The overwhelming majority of our news coverage is liberal to begin with, and the only real difference between the conservatives and liberals is typically just the premises assumed within the coverage itself, not usually the direction of the story.

Where the differences stand out is in opinion journalism, which is still liberally skewed but nowhere near as drastically. The conservative opinion columnists are more concerned with Supreme Court nominations and such at the moment, which is par for the course. They don't often look outside our borders for material. Neither do the liberals, come to think of it.

The balance of your post reminded me of this recent article - it's a lengthy read, but dissects what you discussed pretty thoroughly.

After reviewing some of the CNN videos I have come to the conclusion that the majority of the rioters are gang banger wannabes. They display the dress and mannerisms typical of the gang bangers in the USA -- thus the violent behavior.

After mulling this situation over I have come to the conclusion that the best solution to this would be a policy of dispersal in France thus removing the concentration of ethnic groups and removing the resulting "ghettoization" of these people. Dispersing them to other parts of the country would also provide them with greater employment opportunities and facilitate in the mainstreaming of these people into the standardized French culture.

Now, be that as it may, these riots must be dealt with and I think that France should consider the following:

1. Deployment of French Army troops on the ground and in great numbers. These troop can be armed with non-lethal weapons including water cannons yet maintaining a self defense capability of live weaponry for self defense.

2. Helicopter Air RECON.

3. Establishment of a strict curfew working with the adults in these communitities while weighing a heavy hand on the youth violating said curfew.

4. Maintaining a continuing dialogue with leaders of the community to include the parents until such time that order has been obtained on the ground.

That's all.

Gus,

"Dispersal" was tried a while back. Quiet little villages in the French countryside were suddenly gifted with folk from the suburbs of Paris. The locals in these once quiet towns found themselves dealing with big city problems--drug dealing, theft, vandalism. The local police departments were totally unequipped to deal with this influx of dope dealers, theives and, as you so aptly put it, gang bangers.

It is a nice thought that if one just removes these scum from their environment they will magically transform into decent people of character. That they won't set wheel-chair bound elders on fire in their efforts to torch city buses. It doesn't work that way.

Indeed, the USA has used "dispersal" to ship non-citizen members of gangs back to their country of origin. Those places in Mexico, Central and South America have found they too are now dealing with gang banger problems.

Difficult situations do not create who we are, they reveal who we are.

Doug,

Thanks for the tip on the article. Very good read.

Typical of American media to spend so much time on the judicial nomination and miss the boat on this one. They are driven by profits and have to sell air time and stories. Americans, in general, don't really care much for news outside of their own country. I mean nothing personal in this statement as I am American myself. I only need to look at my own family in Ohio to support what I just said.

Anyways, I do appreciate guys like yourself who show the interest and smarts to address these issues.

@Gus - mandatory integration? Aside from being days late and dollars short in terms of a solution, it lacks one thing that true integration requires: willing cooperation. Simply put, if they don't want to integrate, you can't make them. But expect increasingly bitter complaints that they aren't accepted in the society that they reject.

Again, what part of strafing and overhead artillery bursts, don't the french understand?

How can you judge French suburds when we see what americans are doing in Irak ??? you should mind your onw business.
a French gurl

Little girl,

1. I'm French.

2. I don't really see what the French burning suburbs have to do with Iraq (except maybe for the presence of Islamonazis in both?)

3. Get your information about Iraq in other media than such leftist rags as Le Monde, Le Monde diplomatique or the NYT.